opinions on how XMAS eve will effect the weekend totals..

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interesting week bc rocky opens on wed and pinny will use a 5day total on that one...the rest open on friday but sunday is xmas eve....not that sunday night is a big night for going to the movies anyways....just curious how much of a writeoff the day in general is with many families gathering to exchange gifts etc....

its one of those weekends where you gotta get to the # on fri/sat or your not gonna get there... friday night and saturday afternoon are also the last chance to get to the malls and wrap up gift buying before sunday...

anyone got any opinions on these matters before pinny puts up the lines....

fwiw it looks like eragon might slide in under23m....from SBD has 22.7...and sundays #s from mtc were off higher than the estimates at mojo...
 

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I heard the Saturday before Christmas is typicall the busiest shopping day of the year. Of course X-mas eve will be busy as well. I think a lot of people will be out and they'll go and see movies. Xmas eve night people might go out.

I don't know yet what the Rocky line will be but I just don't see it being a huge hit. However I've seen so many ads for it recently.
 

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I know for a fact I'm going to stay away for the next two weeks. I don't know how I'd exactly handle the special circumstances. Good luck and see you all in 2007!
 

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1unit under WAM 8m -108

1unit under NATM 27m -108 (shocked it was pulled and put back up at 25 and its been all over money...now its over27 -70ish)

1/3unit over rocky 22m -122 didnt know this one would move as much as it did i wish i had played it for a unit....

the bad line was cancelled...i was hoping for the early xmas present as a token of my patronage ;)


we will see how they develop over the course....
 

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What ya do with a house full of guests? send them to the movies

what ya do if the wife and or gf wants you to go with her shopping? You go to the mall with her. She goes and spends money, and you head to the theatre.

What do you do if you don't have family in the area and you want to get out on your extra day off? You go to the movies.

That's my take on the holiday movie going.

Obviously I took Balboa over 123. The price stinks (-175) but I think it's a knockout for ticket sales this week.
 

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I agree with you guys on the Rocky Over. The 5-day gives it a huge boost. Wednesday opening will be huge with all of the fanboys, and then it should have a solid weekend, to go well over imo. By my calculations, after you take out opening Wednesday and Thursday, the line is only around $14 mil weekend, which is a really low $4.7k PTA.

It's expensive at -200-ish, but I'm thinking that if you want the Over and don't get in now, the line will probably move to at least 24-25. Advance sales have started and look promising, and should only boost the movie's BO expectations.

Oh, and the Rocky history is enormous. Looking at old data from the 80's, it's strong enough to go well over this line, even without adjusting for inflation. Adjusting for inflation and being in 3x as many theaters should make it kill the line imo.

Some of my other thoughts on the rest of the weekend's openers.

The #1 film (despite a huge Rocky 5-day) for the weekend should easily be the movie that hits all demographics in expected comedy blockbuster A Night at the Museum (Ben Stiller, Owen Wilson, Robin Williams). It's tracking well, has interest from all age groups, an enormous number of theaters, biggest and most screens in them, and Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson have great box office histories. Their past comedies have easily done $27m+ mil as a floor, and have gotten into the $40's. This will hit not only those audiences, but families as well (who are waiting to see something, after Charlotte's Web bombing), and should be the Christmas movie of the season. Taking the Over at -150 and liking it. This one could see a line change upwards too, imo. (Can you say potential middles?) :)

Feel-good inspirational football story in We Are Marshall (Matthew McConaghey, Matthew Fox). These always seem like the the same old weepy tragedy/comeback story, and yet do consistently well. People in the South like them they football. Nowhere near a blockbuster, but at an $8m line, it doesn't need to be. It's a super-low PTA, and has been getting great marketing, playing on regular channels, and playing on ESPN non-stop, also with it's stars getting special interviews and coming into the studio for SportsCenter. Last week's Pursuit of Happyness shows the potential for feel-good movies based on true stories. Again taking the Over and liking it.

And finally, an adult drama in The Good Shepherd (Matt Damon, Angelina Jolie, Robert DeNiro). Some huge names that should be a draw, as well as an interesting concept in "the birth of the CIA." Slightly weak marketing though, and family movies do better over Christmas rather than older-skewing critical dramas. A little less sure on this one, but Pursuit's success was due in large part to Will Smith, as much as anything else, so all the big stars in this one should help it to at least clear the low $7m line. Small Over, a little less comfortable on this one.

So what are you guys interested in seeing this weekend? Our sports betting forum gets a boxing movie and a football movie. But more importantly, of course, what are you betting on?
 

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Rocky has been getting really good reviews so far...surprisingly. There was a front page story in USA today Rocky and it mentioned some of the critics who actually were surprised. Might be another feel good uplifting movie people want to see. Pinny just moved the line to O/U 25 mil. What do you guys think at that number?
 

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Sweet, we got our line bumps! Middles ahoy. And for those who haven't gotten in on the plays yet, the odds are now more reasonable to initiate a new position. I think that the Over on Rocky and Museum are takeable at the new Pinny odds on both. Still think there's good value there, actually. These will both probably be 4* plays for me, when all is said and done.

Current Pinny lines below:


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Night at the Museum (must be rel. 12/22) 12/22-24
Fri 12/22 Opening 3day wknd box office - Night at the Museum
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 28 million -148
Under 28 million +132

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Rocky Balboa (must be rel. 12/20) 12/ 20-24
Wed 12/20 Opening 5 day box office for Rocky Balboa
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 25 million -158
Under 25 million +142

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The Good Shepherd (must be rel. 12/22) 12/ 22-24
Fri 12/22 Opening 3day wknd box office for The Good Shepherd
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 7.5 million +100
Under 7.5 million -116

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We Are Marshall (must be rel. 12/22) 12/ 22-24
Fri 12/22 Opening 3 day wknd box office for We Are Marshall
Maximum Wager: 214.29 USD

Over 8.5 million -111
Under 8.5 million +105
 

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Great-looking opportunity imo to get the Overs on Museum and Rocky, because some people came in and took their middles. Those arb/middlers drove the lines down a little, and should pretty much be done with their hedging.

I took the opportunity to grab more of the Overs, Museum Over 28 and Rocky Over 25. Both are winners in my mind, just gotta wait and see the weekend results. But I'm rarely wrong on 4* plays (only lost 1 ever), and my posted movie record is below.

And with the 2 Overs I just took, I just made these 4* plays.


YTD Movie Record:
15-8, 40-13 weighted, +126.9 units


Current Pinny lines below:


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Night at the Museum (must be rel. 12/22) 12/22-24
Fri 12/22 Opening 3day wknd box office - Night at the Museum
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 28 million -138
Under 28 million +122

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Rocky Balboa (must be rel. 12/20) 12/ 20-24
Wed 12/20 Opening 5 day box office for Rocky Balboa
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 25 million -136
Under 25 million +120
 

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More on A Night at the Museum:

This weekend's Christmas Eve schedule happened before, in 2000. Go back and look at Cast Away. It made $28.9 million in only 2,774 theaters for a $10.4k PTA. Inflation-adjusted, that's $36.5 million and a $13.2k PTA.

I'm seeing similar numbers for Night at the Museum, and in 3,600+ theaters, that's $47.5 million (at 3.6k theaters flat, and even more if there's a decent tc bump, which there should be, as the + estimated movies grabbed 200-600 more theaters last weekend, and a couple hundred more the weekend before). Now, I'm not saying that Museum will be in the $40's, as that's a little high even for me. But $30's should be really easy for it to achieve.

Look at Ben Stiller's history for mainstream comedies. $27.7m-$30.1m in a lot less theaters and not even inflation-adjusted, so Museum should definitely be way more than that range even. And I'm not even cherry picking, but quite the opposite - I'm not even counting Meet the Fockers, because that's a sequel...but that opened for Christmas 2 years ago during the holiday season and including the "dreaded Christmas Eve" for one of it's days, and got an insane $46.4 million over the 3-day weekend, even after it opened 2 days earlier on Wednesday and "lost" $24m of it's weekend due to the $24m Wed+Thu. So it was a $13.2k PTA that should have been a lot, lot higher if opening like a normal 3-day weekend movie, like Museum is.

Stiller's average for these mainstream comedies is an $11.57k inflation-adjusted PTA, which would be a $41.7 million opening. That's not even including a theater bump from the 3,600, but it should get a couple hundred more. Including Fockers in the average, and using 3,900 theaters, it's a $12.12k PTA average and $47.3 million weekend.

Now note: I am not expecting it to be in the $40's...but it certainly could be, and in the $30's seems really easy to me at this point. Unless you think this will be Stiller's worst failure ever, and that Owen Wilson, Robin Williams, and a host of other great character/2nd tier actors, have no draw, and that families and mainstream comedy audiences think this look horrible. Unless all of that - and which all signs point to the opposite of - yeah, I'm going to take the Over.
 

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1st major prediction site:

Night at the Museum $33.3
Rocky Balboa $18.2
The Good Shepherd $11.2
We Are Marshall $10.3

Good for all, confirms what I had already posted. That Rocky 3-day figure would translate to an approximate $27.1 5-day figure.

And he acknowledges that the "weekend right before Christmas can be dicey, because let's face it, people are shopping and traveling and the last thing on their mind is going to the movies."

These are the predictions, even taking that factor into account. They would be higher otherwise, such as if it were last weekend.

Also, one thing to note: In addition to the 3,600+ theater opening, "Night at the Museum will also be opening in a number of IMAX theatres, which will be able to hold a lot more people and charge higher ticket prices, which should up the per-theatre average across the board."
 

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your killing me llabb...that was a great writeup...i think im sitting on the wrong side...

its funny bc i just posted asking for the 2000 BO results...i only have cast away in front of me...you have to be a premium member at BOM to get access to them...

i think you are most likely right about NATM but im not sold on everything else...i wish i had just fu-king laid off last night and waited...at this point id love to blindly bet everything under at these #s...i just cant see them all going over when sunday is gonna be falloff higher than usual....that and (i know im always saying if the demand is there they can put up the #s) but the marketplace is saturated with movies all trying to via for the same demo of adults...

you have last weeks feel good story PofH which has great WOM and will have another solid BO weekend....WAM which is another hard luck story opening this week trying to go after the same type of draw...GS which is also appealing to adults with several big name actors backing it who people flock to see...rocky6 another sports movie with the old and over the hill boxer and his last fight.......im just not sure every one of these can get there...

gonna continue to watch the lines....appreciate the post though...very informative...
 

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Also, Rocky is getting stellar reviews. 100% COTC on RT, 69% overall, 100% from users. 65 Metacritic, 9.2/10 from users. So surprisingly strong critic's reactions, and fantastic user reactions.

Fanboys will make a huge Wednesday, and positive WOM will carry over through the weekend.

No critic ratings for A Night at the Museum yet, but 9.5/10 from users on Metacritic. Everything is positive so far for these 2 movies, Rocky and Museum.
 

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HuskerFan1 said:
i think you are most likely right about NATM but im not sold on everything else...i wish i had just fu-king laid off last night and waited...at this point id love to blindly bet everything under at these #s...i just cant see them all going over when sunday is gonna be falloff higher than usual....that and (i know im always saying if the demand is there they can put up the #s) but the marketplace is saturated with movies all trying to via for the same demo of adults...

you have last weeks feel good story PofH which has great WOM and will have another solid BO weekend....WAM which is another hard luck story opening this week trying to go after the same type of draw...GS which is also appealing to adults with several big name actors backing it who people flock to see...rocky6 another sports movie with the old and over the hill boxer and his last fight.......im just not sure every one of these can get there...

If any of the 4 do poorly, it is more likely to be We Are Marshall and The Good Shepherd. Where there is too much competition, the top movies get the business, and the smaller ones suffer.

That being said, the box office is big enough to accomodate all 4 of these movies. This will be a big weekend. We have not had an enormous LOTR, Narnia, or Harry Potter movie this year. Pursuit of Happyness was great and all, but $27m is chump change compared to the $73m LOTR 3, $62m LOTR 2, $66m Narnia, $46m Meet the Fockers (and $71m 5-day), $50m King Kong, $103m Harry Potter 4, $90m HP3, $88m HP2, and $88m HP1. There is an enormous amount of room in the box office, and Cast Away's $29m and Ben Stiller's $27-30's are the floor imo. And those are all non-inflation-adjusted, so realistically all of those numbers should be higher if trying to translate them to estimate this year.

Plus, the IMAX for Museum and fantastic reviews/WOM for Rocky should push them even higher. So yeah, Marshall and Shepherd have some draw, but if any stand to miss out, it should be them. If push came to shove, Marshall's audience would likely give preference to Rocky (most of the sports audience, apart from die-hard football fans who may see both) or Pursuit of Happyness (feel-good movie crowd) or Night at the Museum (family crowd). Shepherd's audience just is not that big this time of year, and adults are already seeing Pursuit, guys are seeing Rocky, and adults with kids are going to see Museum. Plus, look at Babel and Blood Diamond for comps for critical adult-oriented dramas with big stars...not too great a track record, even with Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Oscar buzz (Babel a Best Picture contender, Leo a Best Actor contender for Blood Diamond). So Marshall and Shepherd could miss out, but their lines are so low that I have to think Over at this point.

If you try to cherry pick the 1 movie that may go Under, you may get burned at this point. Last weekend, Charlotte Under should have been easier to see, but even if you went all Over, you won the weekend. This weekend, Overs will be 4-0 or 3-1 imo.

And line movements demonstrate this. Lately, when a line goes to -150 and higher, and for sure at -200, it shows the winning side. It's won something like 8-for-8 for the -200 lines and another 4-for-7 for -150 lines or so. And Rocky and Museum already pushed past -200 at the original lines and bumped the line, and now they're past -150 and making their way towards -200 again. So you can tell that these 2 are the likely winners, while Marshall and Shepherd are unsure and close to even money, waffling between even money and a lean to the Over up to -140, and back and forth.

So bottom line, historical standards show that the box office is easily big enough to accomodate the Overs for all 4 of these movies. Historically, if any were to miss out, it would be the 2 smaller movies, while the 2 bigger ones would still go Over. And the line movements show that the Over for Rocky and Museum is the right direction.
 

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Wowowow! Get ready for another line jump! Huge middles and arbs available to those following this thread! Normally, I'm right on some and wrong on some (although almost always right on my big plays), but I'm amazed at how well I nailed this one. If you want the Over at these lines, and a possible middle ahead, hurry before the line moves!


Current Pinny lines below:


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Night at the Museum (must be rel. 12/22) 12/22-24
Fri 12/22 Opening 3day wknd box office - Night at the Museum
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 28 million -210
Under 28 million +180

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Rocky Balboa (must be rel. 12/20) 12/ 20-24
Wed 12/20 Opening 5 day box office for Rocky Balboa
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 25 million -205
Under 25 million +175
 

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Dude, if you're following this thread, even from this morning, you have to be loving me. My plays are winners already, because you have some serious arbs and middles available to you, no matter what point you jumped in on this thread.

Personally, though, I think I'm going to let it all ride at this point, with both of them looking really strong for the Over. All signs positive, almost no negative signs.

As some smart handicappers-bettors I know say, Hedging is -EV. It's conservative and risk averse, but you lose money in the long run doing it, assuming that the play and direction was solid in the first place. Which the line move would confirm, if you have an arb or middle open to you.

So I'm gonna ride out a big weekend on these 2 Overs, I think they easily make it.

Possible next line bump:
Museum 30
Rocky 27

Fair estimated line imo:
Museum 33
Rocky 29
 

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Well, we got the line bump on Museum, and Rocky can't be far behind. As said above, I'm not hedging/arbing/middling, as I still think the Over is the right side. I'm a little surprised they're only moving Museum $1m at a time, actually. $2m would have been more appropriate here, since otherwise there would still be value on the Over. Gonna ride it out in a big way.

For those who want to initiate a new position on Museum, I think that even at this point, there's value in the Over. In fact, the odds are more reasonable to take now, at -140. Pinny doesn't know how to adjust the line, and they don't know the worth of $1m in terms of cents, for movies. They admitted as much in Pinny Pulse, once before. And as said above, even before the line move, I think that the fair line for Museum is 33, and that coincides with existing predictions and indicators.

Even if you want the middle/hedge/arb, you could probably get a better price on it if you wait a little while. The line has gone all to the Over for both of these movies, with no sign of stopping. Better to let it finish it's course, and not impede it's flow, as it will keep rising indefinitely. At the point it reverses, only then is the middle/arb a good play. Just like in stocks - it's the other side of "don't try to catch a falling knife" - "don't try to put a ceiling on a surging wave!"


Current Pinny lines below:


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Night at the Museum (must be rel. 12/22) 12/22-24
Fri 12/22 Opening 3day wknd box office - Night at the Museum
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 29 million -144
Under 29 million +128

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Rocky Balboa (must be rel. 12/20) 12/ 20-24
Wed 12/20 Opening 5 day box office for Rocky Balboa
Maximum Wager: 285.71 USD

Over 25 million -232
Under 25 million +202
 

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Thanks llabb!

I have been too busy with work so I didnt play this week. But, I laid 2 max bets on both Rocky and Night and they both have already moved higher for middle/arb opps.
 

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Yup, got the line bump on Rocky. O/U 26, Over at -160. Still value there imo.
 

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